•  

    September 2008
    M T W T F S S
        Oct »
    1234567
    891011121314
    15161718192021
    22232425262728
    2930  
  • Adgitize

  • Ajax CommentLuv Enabled 83e62acbb4ec56b5649a2419913254be
  • Game Blogs - BlogCatalog Blog Directory
  • GameSites200

    Vote on the Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) Top 200
    Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) Top 200

  • The Character Optimization Controversy for Characters in DnD

    Dungeon Masters, Play, Players

    Character Optimization (CO) is the practice of building the best possible character for dnd or another rpg. The question is what a player means by “best”. For most optimizers (min/maxers, munchkins, power-gamers), this means a character with the best mathematical chance of performing an effective action in the game, usually an attack.

    Everyone who has read the Player’s Handbook knows to add strength to their melee fighter. Not everyone sees the synergy of multi-classing their ranger with a rogue to increase their damage potential.

    Spend a little time in the forums at Enworld or Wizards of the Coast, and you will see just how far many players will go.

    The question of the day is why and how far should a player go when optimizing their character.

    Whenever I speak with players about why they do various things, it always comes down to increasing their potential for having fun. A character optimized to be effective in combat will generally die much less often in combat, and character death is not fun (usually). However, if they play with me, they will soon discover that there are many ways of effectively ending a character’s life/career outside of combat.

    I am then not surprised to find the players optimizing against or in reaction to whatever their last horrible situation was. As an example, I was DMing for a party that had no rogue. They had wonderful healing ability, and could dish out damage left and right. They walked through most combats easily. Every time they found a trap the party had a serious challenge to deal with. Eventually they found a trap that killed a party member and hamstrung the party. Next session, the player whose character died showed up with a rogue – optimized against traps. The party did much better.

    The moral of the story is that as a player when you build your character you should think of it in terms, not only of your character concept, but also in terms of survivability.

    I love to build backgrounds for my characters in dnd. I will spend up to forty hours building a single character (yes, overkill, I know). I consider where the character came from, who their parents are, their likes, dislikes, favorite phrases etc. And then I go and optimize feats, skills, powers, and everything I can think of to keep that character alive – all within the concept of who that character is and what they want to do. Because spending a week’s worth of work to build a character only to have it die in the first session is very, very unfun.

    I don’t recommend that you obsess as much as I do. That’s just insanity. However, I do recommend striking a balance between theme and mechanics. If you wish to play a Dwarf wizard with a penchant for drink and an eye for Halfling women that is fine. Just remember to make him a useful wizard, and give some thought to what will happen when the party eventually leaves the tavern.

    The other side of the optimization coin, is when it goes too far. Many players would suggest that there is no such thing. Respectfully I disagree. All things can go too far. When you find yourself debating energetically and emphatically with your Dungeon Master or with other players, take a step back. You may have crossed the line into the realm of unfun. If your build is making life unfun for the Dungeon Master, you can bet that he or she will make life unfun for you, either they will target you unfairly or they will stop running the game for you.

    If other players complain, I suggest you listen. They are not whining at you. They are warning you, and often not so subtly, that you have crossed into unfun territory and that your actions are not welcome. If those players are your friends, then you owe them the respect of listening and working with them to restore fun to the game.

    Build the best character you can, and have fun with it!

    If you like this post, share it!
    • Digg
    • Sphinn
    • del.icio.us
    • Facebook
    • Mixx
    • Google
    • De.lirio.us
    • feedmelinks
    • Technorati

    Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons Corner.

    You can find Character Sheets Here.

    You can enjoy more of my work by subscribing to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!

    Feel free to make a Paypal Donation to support Dungeons and Dragons Corner!

    Did you like this post? Want More? Then subscribe to my RSS feed!

    12 Responses

    1. Tomcat1066  •  September 22, 2008 @3:11 am

      For me, the best character is one that can hold their own in combat, but gives me the best role play opportunities. It’s simply the way I like to play, sure, but I like to leave things open in my background for the DM to play with. Stats and abilities aren’t what makes the “best” character for me.

      But I’m weird like that ;)

    2. admin  •  September 22, 2008 @5:26 am

      There’s nothing weird about playing a character you can enjoy. There is a happy place out there for all characters, and playing something that can be effective both in and out of combat is a pretty happy place to be.

    3. Bob  •  September 22, 2008 @6:32 am

      It’s always been a bugbear of mine. Right up there with minimum stats for certain careers. I understand why the limits are there and why players sometimes strive to be the best the system will allow but I still don’t get it as a whole.

      I think where I fall down is that I don’t see characters as the heroes most systems want them to be. I see a character as just that. My cleric might not be predisposed to saving the world and certainly won’t have the skill set at first but I’ll certainly play them if the GM will let me. I’ve seen unhealthy whimpy fighters end up being one of the best warriors in a campaign before and had it argued that they got their through skill and overcoming their ‘disabilities’ and not because they min/maxed their character from the word ‘go’.

    4. Tomcat1066  •  September 22, 2008 @6:43 am

      Agreed. I can’t help but try and get the most out of my characters, both inside and outside of combat. However, having the character be believable is the real trick. I’m trying to avoid cliches and make each character unique in ways that characters usually aren’t. Of course, I have a problem with stereotypes on any level, so there’s that to figure in as well ;)

    5. Donny_the_DM  •  September 22, 2008 @9:10 am

      for some folks, the optimization IS the fun.

      For most others, it is the character itself.

      Whatever floats the proverbial boat, but when I see some of the insanity of Pun-Pun the uber-kobold, or soem of the other odd game breakers out there, I wonder for the creator’s sanity.

    6. Mark  •  September 22, 2008 @1:23 pm

      I think most people who play roleplaying games eventually come around to the fact that their character must be useful in combat situations. (If not, in combat, they better be very useful outside of combat.)

      With that said, I have played with players that do go overboard on optimizing their character. Typically, this will manifect itself in one of two ways…

      First, a player will make a character far outclasses every other character in the party. This doesn’t happen too often, but from time to time, someone comes up with a way to make their character so powerful that everyone else in the party feels useless. (I haven’t seen this with a single character in D&D 3.5, however, I have seen two people come up with a combination that worked in tandem to make the rest of the party feel useless.)

      The second time I have seen this happen is when you have two people using the same character concept and one of them is VERY good at optimizing their characters and the other is not. I am certain that most people have been in a group where there are two people playing a fighter and one just whallops the creatures left and right while the second fighter cannot hit the side of a barn. This typically will not harm everyone’s fun, but I’ll guarantee you that in combat, the second fighter just doesn’t feel special at all. A good game master can balance this all out by giving the second fighter all the chance in the world to shine outside of combat, but even then when combat comes around they feel outclassed.

    7. Josh  •  September 22, 2008 @3:26 pm

      My advice is always: If your players enjoy powerful characters, make their opponents stronger and let them enjoy the aspect of the game that they enjoy.

      I personally find the challenge of optimization fun. I actually encourage optimized characters in my campaigns because I like optimizing the monsters…

      The real key is balance. An experienced power gamer in a group of like-minded players (and a DM prepared to handle the challenge) doesn’t stand out at all. The same player in a group of non-optimizers can throw the whole campaign out of whack.

      Also, every good adventure will challenge players with many facets of the game… including those in which the numbers just don’t matter.

      The most important aspect of any game is the FUN. For some people, taking away the opportunity to optimize takes a great deal of fun out of the game.

    8. Chris  •  September 22, 2008 @7:41 pm

      40 hours for one character background? I’d really love to see some of your work!

    9. admin  •  September 23, 2008 @5:47 am

      Chris, this whole site is born from my obsession!

      Josh, I agree with what you have said very much. I would add that as players we have a responsibility to recognize when our power-gaming is too much for the DM we are with and to be able to change our behavior so help him or her learn how to DM for power-gamers.

    10. [...] you’ve put a lot of thought into your dnd character, optimized it, consulted with the experts and your ready for anything.  Or so you think.  Even the best [...]

    11. Greg  •  March 3, 2009 @1:23 pm

      I’m in the US navy. i’m 22. i played my first campaign in 5th grade. i keep my sanity on long underways by creating the most powerful lv20 v3.5 D&D character possible, based solely on the books (no variant rules a DM might dispute- just things in black-and-white). i use base stats of 17,16,16,15,14,14, which are good but not uber-powerful.

      it’s not the single strongest character- its the most powerful combination of classes and feats, really. for example, adding Leadership to your toon will drastically increase the prowess of the player, or making your druid companion actually decent enough for you to take on more powerful bosses.

      i’ve spent over 2 years perfecting this greatest combination of feats and classes possible at level 20. i’ve had break-throughs- MANY of them. i’ve discovered a spell far more powerful than WISH.

      i can make a toon’s strength go all the way up to 53, using 17 as the base (about 8 points higher than a colossol red dragon).

      Long story short, i’ve finally found the combination of feats/classes i need. it allows a single player (with more than a single character) to EASILY- i can’t stress that enough- EASILY beat a colossol red dragon, the toughest evil thing there is to fight (unless you find something with a higher CR from a different MM- it doesnt matter though).

      by the way, the spell more powerful than WISH is MONSTROUS THRALL, only castable by a cleric with the domination domain. look it up in COMPLETE DIVINE. u can enslave ANY creature FOREVER- just cast BESTOW GREATER CURSE on THE TARRASQUE, for example, thereby making his will save +12, buff the hell out of the DC, and leave the Tarrasque only able to make the save by rolling 18+.

      ALso, take VOW OF POVERTY whenever possible- massive increase to abilities, saves, melee, and especially AC. it lets a lv20 toon with a 17 in a base ability bring it up to 42 in some cases. here’s how:

      half-orc base strength of 17, +2 for race=19
      5 levels of dragon devotee+10 levels dragon disciple=str29
      5points from leveling (4,8,12,etc)=34
      +8 to one ability from vow of poverty=42.

      from there you can raise it to 50+ by casting FIST OF STONE (+6str) and going into rage, resulting in str of 52. there are only a few GODS with higher strength. if i was greedy and gave him an 18 for his base score (which is entirely possible of course), he’d have an ungodly strength of 53.

      but this combination of feats and classes DOESN’T result in the most powerful possible. if you want me to elaborate on what IS (as far as i’ve found), email me at stanford@ffg53.navy.mil. you’ll become privvy to what i have been obsessing over for years- countless thousands of hours. ive lost sleep, havent studied for my advancement exam (which means i’ve missed out on countless hundreds of dollars for not advancing), and get berated by my peers for playing D&D.

      ive always been secure in saying i’ve created “the most powerful D&D 3.5 character possible”, but then i have another breakthrough and make the previous ones pale in comparison. so this combination ive found may not be the strongest (but again, it will allow a player to EASILY, EASILY) defeat ANYTHING non-epic, and prolly quite a lot of epic monsters as well.

      just email me if you want to know the rest of the formula cuz i’ve written enough already!

    12. Dave  •  March 18, 2009 @7:54 am

      Building a really good character comes from 2 things for me. First, I build them well because in my spare time (which there seems to be too much of these days), I often find myself without a D&D group. This means that I want to play D&D, but cannot. In order to “play” D&D by myself I research character optimization on the internet.

      The second thing is that I have been in fighter number 2’s spot before, however the circumstances were a little different. The DM had a player character who had a martial role in the campaign, and my fighter couldn’t get the respect in combat that he deserved. He never felt like he had ‘enough’ power. However this was months ago, and I now understand the fundamental numerical reasons why the fighter class (especially how I had him set up) are inferior to many other classes, and why he didn’t work out for me.

      I think the DM’s leniency plays a big role in de-gaming power-gamers. It just takes a creative DM to find the weaknesses of any optimized character. The “trap” thing that the OP added where a trap could kill a character so easily is just one way to thwart combat-happy powergamers. In one of our campaigns, our DM put us in a situation where we have had to face almost 10 encounters already, and we are still in the middle of the enemy base, and they HAVE dispellers so we can’t rest in a rope trick. We’re totally out of healing, and even our most optimized people are trying to formulate how we’re getting out of this situation.

    Leave a Reply

    Allowed tags: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>